Slightly Caffeinated

TJ Miller (00:00)
Hey, welcome back to the slightly caffeinated podcast. I'm TJ Miller. So Chris, what's new in your world,

Chris Gmyr (00:04)
and I'm Chris Gmyr

Yeah, mean, pretty much the same this week, just doing project planning and diving into Dynamo, which has been interesting. So yeah, nothing too excited, just kind of prepped and ready for the weekend. I Memorial Day off, as do most people, I think. And yeah, just trying to get ready to enjoy the three-day weekend. It's a little bit cooler today, so it's kind of nice. So hopefully that'll continue.

Don't have too much going on over the weekend. We have a birthday party for one of our friends, and then probably just do like barbecue type of thing around here and just kind of chill and enjoy an extra day off.

TJ Miller (00:42)
Yeah, man. That's sick, Sounds like a nice time. Man, new in my world. Just got back from PHP Tech. Basically spent the week out there. The conference was like Tuesday through Thursday. Had like speaker dinner Monday night and it was awesome. We'll get all into that in I think just a second here. Yeah, just going to be like recovering this weekend. I think.

Chris Gmyr (00:44)
Yeah, so how about you? Yeah.

TJ Miller (01:01)
The Memorial Day weekend is like the big Detroit Electronic Music Festival. And I think at the last minute yesterday, we decided that we're going to go down for the Monday. It's it's Saturday, Sunday, Monday is the festival. But Monday we had like actually a handful of artists that we would love to go see. So I think the last minute we decided to get tickets and head down there, torn on bringing Ellis or not.

like bringing the kiddo. Like, I don't, because it's last minute and it's Memorial Day, I have like a sitter problem. Like, I don't think I can find anybody to watch him. But also, I kind of think he'd have a riot down there. Like, just getting to like experience that, see a bunch of stuff. But I don't think he's like super into electronic music. So I don't know. But I think it'd be a fun experience for him. I just don't want to end up in a situation where like

Chris Gmyr (01:51)
Yeah.

TJ Miller (01:52)
My wife and I are like down to party and like we want to go like dance and like listen to music and my son is like tapped out and like bored and ready to go home. Like I don't want to end up in that situation. So I'm desperately trying to find a sitter, but I guess worst case he's coming with and I'm sure we'll make the most of it too.

Chris Gmyr (02:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, totally. like, I don't know, kids just like to listen to music and have fun, especially if you guys are having fun. I'm sure he'd join in and have a good time. And worst case, like you get like halfway through it and one of you have to like goop her back and another one just hangs and has a good time. know, you could always do that. At least you guys can hang out and party and go to the concert ⁓ for a while.

TJ Miller (02:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it'll

be good. Yeah, it'll be fun. I would love to find a sitter for him, but like I said, worst case, like I'm pretty sure he'll go down, have a good time. And as long as we keep him hydrated and maybe let him sip on an energy drink a little bit, we'll keep it going, you know? Yeah, I'm sure he'll be fine. I mean, after all, he is like our kid, so I'm sure he'll be into it. Like, I don't know.

Chris Gmyr (02:44)
Yeah, get some snacks, get some treats, like.

Yeah, yeah, totally. That's awesome.

TJ Miller (02:55)
So yeah, I think that'd be fun. It would be like his first concert too. So I think that would be like, a hell of a first concert and like head down to like a big electronic festival. Like that'd be, that'd be a banger. So yeah.

Chris Gmyr (03:07)
Yeah, totally. Man, I

thought you were going to take him to Weird Al, like your first concert. I was hoping for that.

TJ Miller (03:13)
I really,

like I still really want that to be his like first concert, but I may not have a choice here.

Chris Gmyr (03:21)
Well, it's technically a festival. So you could say like, hey, this is his first festival, but for his concert, you know, still in the cards.

TJ Miller (03:23)
Sure. Festival, right. Yeah.

I think that's maybe a good way to approach it. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Chris Gmyr (03:33)
Yeah, you win both ways.

Cool. So yeah, you mentioned tech. You just got back from that. ⁓ So yeah, let's hear it. So you did a workshop on Tuesday, and then you did a full talk on Thursday. So yeah, can you walk us through? I guess we'll start from the beginning. You said you also had a speaker dinner. You met a bunch of people. ⁓ Start from the top.

TJ Miller (03:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was super cool, man. So like Monday night, we had the speaker dinner. like, I just, I drove out this year. It's a five hour drive to the venue from my house. And last year I took the train and I loved it. It was great. This year, I don't know. I just, I didn't want to be beholden to a train schedule and it like dictating where I needed to be places.

So I just decided to drive. then that gave me the freedom to be able to drive around there too, which is, I mean, you don't really have to get around too much, but it was really nice to have my own car. Turned out it ended up working out really well. But the speaker dinner was sick. It was at this bowling alley. And so we kind of took over bowling alley and we had our speaker dinner. It was cool to just see all the speakers. So for me, like,

last year and like this year. and speaking at wave, which is, so these are all like conferences put on by the folks behind PHP architect. like Eric van Johnson, John Condon, ton of other people like help put it on and everything, but it's mostly like that those two guys driving the ship. So all these conferences were put on by them like PHP tech and wave. So the cool thing is like a lot of the speakers from all of those conferences, like there's a lot of overlap.

So it was just great to see like so many speakers that I met last year again back speaking this year. it was super dope. Ran into, Daniel Colburn was there. so like we, hung out a ton the whole conference. but the bowling was great. Like probably some of the best bowling I've ever done. I don't normally break a hundred and I broke a hundred, both, both games I played. So, yeah, I was.

Chris Gmyr (05:26)
Nice.

TJ Miller (05:37)
pretty stoked on that.

Chris Gmyr (05:39)
Yeah,

we don't go bowling that much, it's always a good time.

TJ Miller (05:43)
Yeah, it was a lot of fun actually. Just doing like something totally different than like just dinner, right? It was like dinner and activity. So it was fun. met some new people there. So yeah, that was super cool. So yeah, speaker dinner was a riot Monday night. Tuesday afternoon, so like the first day of the conference on Tuesday, in the afternoon I had my workshop.

I was definitely a little worried about the workshop. Like just it's a three hour slot. I didn't know. Like I haven't done a workshop since 2018. So it was just like not feeling super confident about it. But I spent probably like scattered throughout the day because I caught a couple of talks and then was just like hanging out socially. like I spent probably half half the day like

refining the workshop and just I made a few decisions at the last minute to like change a couple things up. I was working on like using, I guess I'll summarize the workshop. Like we built three different things through the workshop. We built a not in this order, but like we built actually in this order, we built like a blog post generator. So you could give it a topic set the tone.

and then it would go off and generate this blog post for you. And we kind of work through progressively enhancing it a little bit, adding a few different features. So we start with just content generation. Now let's make it like a blog post. All right, let's refine the prompt and make sure that all the pieces are there for the blog post. Let's make the tone variable. Let's make the topic dynamic. And we did all of that as an artisan command. But initially, I was going to do it with a user interface.

But I just didn't want to spend the time building HTML and stuff together. That part didn't feel valuable to the people attending it. So let's stick it in an artisan command, we'll make a nice, pretty command. And we'll be able to focus on really the meat and potatoes of using Prism to do this stuff.

Chris Gmyr (07:45)
Yeah, it's almost like a version of TDD, because I've done that too. I don't want to mess around with any front end. I don't want to mess around with controllers and the whole stack. Let's just build it up in the Artisan command. And you still have inputs and different outputs that you can use, or even using the prompts package. So that's always been a beneficial way to go. Just get it out functionally and get it working.

TJ Miller (07:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yep, yeah, we leveraged some internals and prompts to make a really nice user interface, everything wrapped in boxes. I think that went well. The second thing we built was multimodal document analysis. So essentially, I also had initially built this as a user interface, but made the same decision. Let's just make this an artisan command instead.

So the second thing we built was like this, like I said, this multimodal document analysis thing. So you could point it out an image. So that was the first thing we did is like, let's build like an image analysis thing. And so you would like point it to the path of an image. And like I made a starter repo that I had these images in and had a couple like base prompts already typed out that I just like, let's start by cloning this repo and then we'll work on that. And then you guys, like we don't have to spend time like typing out.

prompts or anything like, it's just all there. And like, we don't have to like download this PDF for this test image that we're going to use. It's just in the repo, like use that. So we start with like image generation, like image analysis. like in your artisan command, like PHP artisan analyze path to image, and it'll do like basic analysis. Then we started using structured outputs.

Chris Gmyr (08:59)
Yeah, that was a good idea.

TJ Miller (09:21)
to like we progressively enhanced it to like, let's do structured outputs for different types of analysis. like sentiment analysis, key points extraction, just generic summary. So just like different types of like analysis that you could perform on these things. And we did it in like we enhanced it with structured output so that for each type of analysis, you're getting this like deterministic response back.

like in a shape that you can then have a really nice user interface to build around and all sorts of things. And then we enhanced it further to then also work for document types. So like PDFs, docx, like text files, markdown files, like whatever, instead of images or text. So now you could point this command to either an image file or a text file of various types. And then you would

like through prompts, select your analysis type, and then at the end you'd get like your various different types of analysis output. So I thought that was like a really cool to build and kind of shows off like an interesting workflow and how you can make it like adaptable to like any type of media. Like let's just work with that. So that was cool. And then the last thing.

that we built was very similar to what I built with Nuno on his stream. We built a CLI chat interface with prompts. And we basically progressively enhanced this into being a customer support agent. And then we exposed a tool to it that can query, make eloquent queries to an order model.

And orders have items. so basically, the customer chat support, you'd be like, hey, what's going on with my order? It goes, I need your order ID. Provide the order ID. And then it goes off and queries eloquent, gets the order, all the item information, and then comes back and is like, well, your status is pending. And these are the items that were part of your order. Do you have any other questions? So we did that.

And then we had a little extra time, so we showed off Relay, which is our MCP tool. We hooked that up to something and just kind of showed that off. But people had like excellent questions. were definitely like folks engaged throughout the conference. I saw like multiple people like building their own things with Prism. Like, yeah, that was so cool of like.

Chris Gmyr (11:40)
That's super cool.

TJ Miller (11:43)
During it, people were like, yeah, so I wanted to build this thing, and so I've been hacking on it. Here's what I've got so far. And it was cool to be like, all right, cool. We can run with this. I'll give you whatever my feedback is on what you're building, and then run with it. But it was so cool to see people at the conference building their own things with Prism. Just such a surreal experience.

But I think the workshop went great. The feedback from the workshop is that I was too fast paced for an interactive workshop. And I totally agree. really, it was difficult because I was in the main room. The main room this year, they were experimenting with like theater style lighting. So everything was like a lot darker. And then you'd have like me up on the main stage, which just kind of set.

little bit of a weird environment for a workshop. Like, I think having like lights up would have maybe forced me to like slow down a little bit, feel less of a presentation and more of a like classroom. But also

Chris Gmyr (12:43)
Yeah, because it's really hard to see

what people are working on. if you see a bunch of people in the audience or in the classroom struggling a little bit or questioning things on their face and body language, it's a lot harder to do that up on stage when you have the bright lights blaring on you.

TJ Miller (12:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, so super valid feedback. Like I was definitely too fast paced for an interactive workshop. But I also like noticed looking around the room, there weren't that many people with like, I think there were less than half the people that were there that had laptops open. So I was also trying to cater to the majority of the attendees that, you know, if I went too slow and you're not following along, then

that's a really slow pace. So I ended up landing somewhere in the middle where it was maybe a little slow for people who weren't following along, but too fast for people who were. So if I had to do it again, I maybe would have dropped the customer support chat, or maybe I would have dropped the basic generation and like, let's just dive into like the interesting things, which are structured outputs.

and tool use, right? I think those were like maybe the two most interesting things for people to walk away with. And so I think we could have like skipped the basic generation stuff. Like that's not, I mean, it's, it's a good on-ramp, but it's not, I don't think it's nearly as interesting as the other two things. but out of the three hour slot, we got through all the content in like two hours and 45 minutes. And then with like,

Chris Gmyr (13:51)
Mm-hmm.

TJ Miller (14:12)
additional questions and then somebody asked about Relay so I like showed that off which is like the MCP client tool and that like filled the three-hour slot so like I was really worried about not having enough content and Turns out I had exactly enough content for the pace that I went and I would have had too much content if I went Slow enough for like an actual interactive workshop, so I don't know

I wish I would have got the pacing a little bit better for people to feel a little bit better about it being like an interactive workshop, but I'm actually super happy with how it went.

We took like two 10 minute breaks throughout, but for the most part, I was basically live coding for three hours. Yeah. And for that, it went really well. So I talked a little bit about how I spent like the first half of the day, like kind of prepping for the workshop. And what I did is because I made those decisions to like switch to artisan commands instead of user interfaces with like blade components and stuff.

Chris Gmyr (15:02)
a long time.

Mm-hmm.

TJ Miller (15:18)
I had to like go back and I built all the artisan commands first. Like I built them all so that for two reasons. One, that as I'm leading the workshop, I know mentally where I'm heading because I just, I just built them all. Like I know kind of the pieces that I need. But also if something went awry in the middle of the workshop, like I, this did happen. Like let's say I forgot.

a piece of functionality and like now the thing doesn't work the way that I expected it to. Instead of fumbling around on stage, I could either go reference the code that I wrote earlier, or I could just like copy and paste the thing over and then pick up where we left off. And that did happen when we were doing the customer support chat. I missed a piece that managed memory, like the conversation history.

I like, I missed a piece and things weren't working right. And I only panicked for like maybe half a minute before I just decided to copy and paste over the completed thing. And then we just like picked up from like where we left off there. Like, and as soon as I copied and pasted it, like I knew I saw exactly like the piece I forgot, but I would have 100 % have like fumbled around forever trying to figure out what I had missed.

Chris Gmyr (16:37)
Yeah, it's good to have a template and something to kick your brain back into motion.

TJ Miller (16:39)
Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm honestly really happy with how it went. It was smooth, didn't really fumble around. And for live coding, we only had a couple of hiccups. So ⁓ very, very satisfied doing that much live coding on stage and it'd be like smooth.

Chris Gmyr (16:54)
Nice.

Yeah, that's a lot. And sounds like a lot of fun too. And I think, depending, like, I don't know how many people showed up or what their level of knowledge into either RISM or just agents and what you can do with it in general. But I kind of like the kind of slow start where, everyone gets on the same page first and then you dive into, like, the more advanced things unless it was, like,

specifically promoted as a more advanced workshop, which I don't know if it was or not. But I think getting everyone on the same page, even if they're not completely following along on their laptops, I think it's a good intro to get everyone.

TJ Miller (17:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, and the thing is like everyone who attended the conference also gets access to like, so the whole conference is live streamed, right? So like you can buy a virtual ticket to this conference and like watch all the talks live streamed. So like that's super dope, but that means they're also all recorded. So if you, and like, if you attended the conference, you automatically get access to the virtual stuff, the recordings too. So I think it's also will end up serving as like a really good asset that like

even people who attended and maybe I went too fast for them can always go back and rewatch the video and follow along that way too. ⁓ But the whole thing I did, I did the whole thing in a way of like, we are going from like basic features to advanced features, which is why I had three, right? I had like a basic and intermediate and advanced kind of thing that we were going to build. And then inside of those, each of those things that we built, we built in a like,

Chris Gmyr (18:14)
Yeah.

TJ Miller (18:33)
progressively enhanced way. Like, we'll do like the basic thing. like multimodal, like let's just analyze an image, right? Now let's add structured output to that analysis type. All right, now let's add multi-document type support, right? So like even in that, was like, let's progressively enhance this thing and take it from its most basic form to something more advanced. And so I'm really happy with how that played out too. Like, and that the workshop was what I was most worried about.

The talk I was feeling pretty confident in. So I was really happy that we started off with a super solid workshop and felt good about that.

Chris Gmyr (19:09)
Yeah, that definitely sounds awesome. You mentioned the repo. Is that something that you would want to share in show notes, if that's still public or anything else like that?

TJ Miller (19:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to leave it up. And what we did is I just pushed everything that we built, the final result of what we got to in the workshop. I just committed that and pushed it. And so that's, yeah, we can share that in the show notes. It's on my personal org. So it's like github.com, 6live.com, PHP Tech Workshop 2025. So yeah, we'll put that, we'll toss it in the show notes. But yeah, these people can.

definitely go grab it. think that was somebody had asked that I had gone a little too fast for. They're like, hey, can you like push up all the things that we built so I can go back and reference it later? I was like, of course, like that sounds like a great idea.

Chris Gmyr (19:54)
Yep,

yep, totally. And yeah, I guess one question and then we can jump over to the talk that you had. Did everyone have to have like AI API access before having to jump in? did they have to buy APIs on whatever sort of service that they wanted to get set up on beforehand?

TJ Miller (19:59)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that was a piece that I was kind of worried about too. So I had actually reached out to Anthropic and another provider too. I can't remember who it was. I had like reached out to them. like, hey, I'm like giving a workshop, you know, at this conference on like building with this thing. Would you like give us some like discount codes or like a pool of free credits that I can offer, offer out? I never heard back from anybody, which was kind of a bummer. ⁓

Chris Gmyr (20:36)
Yeah.

TJ Miller (20:36)
But one of the cool things that someone turned me on to before the conference was that basically signing up for the Google Gemini API, you get like $300 in free credits to like play around with it. So that's kind of where I was like recommending people. like, hey, just go like sign up for Gemini for this because like you'll get just free credits and you'll be able to do everything that we do here. So everything that we built through the workshop.

Chris Gmyr (20:49)
Okay.

TJ Miller (21:03)
also included multiple provider support. So that was pretty cool to show off how easy it is to just change providers. But I wanted to have multiple provider support just depending on which provider people had API keys for. ⁓ But that's a core tenet of Prism is offering this provider interop opportunity.

Chris Gmyr (21:18)
Yeah.

Yep, totally. No, that was a good call for Gemini. And luckily, they had a pretty decent free credit situation. I think, yeah, it would have been awesome if Claude could have, in Anthropi, could have thrown you some API keys or some sort of ⁓ discount code or something like that.

TJ Miller (21:38)
Yeah. Give me, just give me a $300 credit. Yeah. Just give like my

account a $300 credit and I'll just give like, I'll publish like one of my API keys and then I'll just roll it after the conference, you know, like whatever. that would, that would have been really cool, but yeah, I never heard back from anybody. I tried though. I tried. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (21:52)
Yep. Totally.

Yeah, maybe next time. Have a little bit more time or something like that.

Because yeah, it would have been kind of a bummer. Like you spend $1,000 between a ticket and flights and hotel and whatever. And it's like, oh, need to spend another $20 or $50 on API access to get it working. But it's fine. And like you said, you went through everything and have the code later. So people can tinker with it.

TJ Miller (22:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So every all the feedback was super positive outside of it was just a bit fast paced, ⁓ which I agree with it was it was definitely too fast paced for that. But whatever. So the talk, right? The talk I did Thursday, so last day of the conference, like in the afternoon. And this was a talk on

Chris Gmyr (22:30)
Yeah, I think it's fine.

TJ Miller (22:45)
kind of like the whole Clickhouse story that we've been talking about here on the podcast too. So that talk just kind of went through the journey of like, look, we went from millions, now we're having to log like 2 billion requests a month, right? And like, here's kind of like where our system was and why we're having a problem with it and...

Chris Gmyr (22:50)
Mm-hmm.

TJ Miller (23:09)
Like kind of the journey of coming to and implementing ClickHouse and kind of like where we got to today and like where it's at now and kind of the plan moving forward. Totally different type of talk than I've normally given. Like I normally give like technical informative talks and this was a little bit more of a like story and journey. So different style. I took a totally different approach to building the talk out.

And I think I feel great about it. I don't, there, nobody had left any feedback on the talk itself. So, I don't, I don't really know how people felt about it, but there were definitely a handful of people in the audience who were engaged, had a couple of questions afterwards. They were good questions. I felt really good about the delivery. all it goes a 50 minute slot. all of my practice runs had landed at like 40 minutes and.

the actual talk ran exactly 50 minutes. So I was like super stoked that I was able to like manage my pacing in there. Cause that was the whole thing. I'm like, if I get an adrenaline dump at the beginning of this thing and I can't manage it, I'm going to blow through the content. Like I'll absolutely blow through it and we'll have like a 30 minute talk. Like it'll be horrible.

Chris Gmyr (24:16)
Yeah.

TJ Miller (24:21)
And so for me, it was a big lesson in getting through that initial burst of adrenaline and stress and then settling into a good pace, which it did. And I didn't miss anything. It went smooth. So I felt good about it. That was a good one.

Chris Gmyr (24:38)
Yeah, that's awesome.

TJ Miller (24:39)
And I felt like probably the most comfortable I'd ever felt on stage too, which is like, I have horrible stage fright. And so like that was, I think something like big for me that it was like, all right, no, like this was good, especially leading up to LairCon in July. Like, I definitely wanted to, I was really hoping to walk away from this, feeling confident about my presenting skills. Like if these would have not gone well, I would be.

Chris Gmyr (25:02)
Mm-hmm.

TJ Miller (25:05)
terrified for Lericon, but they both went over really well. So now I'm feeling like really good about

Chris Gmyr (25:14)
Yeah, totally. And I think the conference was really, don't know, you were set up for success because the workshop, even though was three hours long, like you've been living in this world, like you probably have just gone in there and like winged it and like gotten through it and still offering people value. And same thing with the talk. Like, yeah, a 15 minute talk is pretty long for talks, but

You've been in the weeds with ClickHouse and all the changes that you guys have gone through at Geocodeo. We've talked through it in a bunch of episodes on here. And it's something that you've been in the weeds with. You're still actively working on it. It's still fresh. It's not something you six months ago or 12 months ago where the details are a little fuzzy or like, eh, this doesn't really seem like that interesting anymore. I've felt that, too, with certain things.

TJ Miller (25:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (26:09)
So it's nice that you're still in it and you're still excited about it and able to present that with that energy. I think just leading up to the conference and throughout the conference, was just, I don't know, it sounds like a pretty big success on your part.

TJ Miller (26:23)
Yeah. so I sent, something I don't normally do for talks was like, I ran through this one, but like, I ended up recording a pretty decent run through. I sent it to you. I sent it to like the whole GeoCodeo team. cause I also wanted to make sure it was like accurate to, to

everything because it was also something like about what we've done at Geocodeo. So I wanted to make sure that I got all of that stuff right too. So I ended up sending it to the Geocodeo team and got solid feedback from everyone. so that gave me lot of confidence going into it too that like...

that at least the overall thing got the thumbs up from everyone that I had sent it to you.

Chris Gmyr (27:02)
Yeah. And

with that, super appreciate you sending me the link to it. And that night we got home a little bit late from a scout thing. So I was putting my son down and just sitting in his room. saw that you messaged me and with the video and stuff like that. And I'm like, okay, cool. But it's getting kind of late. only going to like, I'll start it and get through, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes. And then I'll, you know, go to bed because it's late and then, you know, watch the rest of it. Like I was.

just locked in on that video and just sat in his room like the entire time as he's sleeping. I'm like, this is just like so good. It just hit like all the right pieces, just in depth enough, like technically and like going through the choices and then all the migration stuff at the end. I think the story arc through the whole talk was super solid. And I you made some changes after that. So it's probably even better than the one that I saw.

TJ Miller (27:32)
Sick.

Chris Gmyr (27:57)
But yeah, I just, I don't think I mentioned to you that too. But I'm like, man, I got, I need to finish this video in this talk right now. It's like that good.

TJ Miller (28:00)
No, that's awesome.

man, I really appreciate that. Like that was, I really enjoyed how it played out and like, was cool, to be able to be like, yeah, we shipped this production like a week ago, Monday. And right before I went on stage, I went and like, checked to see how many records we were in there. And it was cool to be like, yeah, we have like 250 million records in ClickHouse right now. Like, and it's been up for like a little under two weeks, like, and it's not broken a sweat. So it was.

Chris Gmyr (28:26)
Yeah.

That's awesome.

TJ Miller (28:32)
It was

really nice to kind of like also end the journey on like a high note of like, yeah, so like, here's the journey on how we ended up with where we're at today. And it's working perfectly. Like I, it deployed perfectly and it's been running perfectly ever since. Like this is fantastic.

Chris Gmyr (28:44)
Yeah.

Yep. See? Perfect story arc. It would have been totally a different story if it was like, we tried all these things and it's still falling over and we still have the same problem. We'll try again some other time. But yeah, totally different with this. So that's awesome.

TJ Miller (28:52)
Yeah.

mean, it was purposeful. Like there was a big push last week to get it out and deployed. Like, I mean, one, Matias and I have been just like antsy to get this project like wrapped up because it's been going on for so long. So like there was a, we had a push to do that, but I also was really pushing hard to like get it out there and get it out and stable so that I could end the talk in that way of like, yeah, it's deployed now and it's like, it's up and running and like it's in a good place. So.

And then, like, so the workshop went well. I felt really good about the talk. Daniel Colburn's talk on verbs was fantastic. The native PHP talk that Shane did was so cool. Like, I'm definitely messing with it this weekend. Like, we will be building an iOS app with Prism this weekend. The drive home last night, I got home at like a little after midnight.

Chris Gmyr (29:49)
three.

Awesome.

TJ Miller (29:57)
But like the whole drive home, I'm just like thinking up ideas of like cool stuff I can build with Prism in an iOS app, especially with like the new streaming stuff that Laravel's been dropping for like streaming responses and everything. We're gonna be playing with all that cool shit this weekend. I'm like excited. It was...

It was really cool. Shane did such a great job. I had no idea this was his first conference talk. And he showed off native PHP for Android and just how easy it is to work with and be productive. I mean, it's Laravel. But seeing Laravel code be able to turn on the flashlight on your phone is just like, there's something so cool about that.

Chris Gmyr (30:39)
Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it sounds really promising. So I'm interested to hear how it is once you jump into it and start tinkering with it more. I haven't gotten a chance to look at it yet, but yeah, it sounds super awesome from following their podcast and hearing about the updates that they've been working on and all that. And just like you said, it's just the Laravel code doing some phone stuff, which is pretty sweet.

TJ Miller (30:44)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was. Yeah, that was super cool. Just like the whole drive home, just like dreaming up like interesting stuff to build. I was hoping this would be the case, too. But like, I'm back with like fresh energy and fresh inspiration to like be working on Prism to like just all the feedback was great, like super high motivation. So I've got a few things I think up my sleeve that'll be exciting for it. And

going to be going to be really focused on it the next at least the next few weeks for sure kind of doing some interesting stuff. Yeah, yeah, it was like I've like I've said, I think I'm sure I've said it on here about conferences like the talks are great. And like I enjoy the talks, especially now though, like most talks are recorded. And so like

a of times the talks that I do go to are like, I want to specifically see the speaker present, like I want to see the speaker present this. Like, and I was able to catch like all the talks that I like really wanted to see in person. but these are such like,

For me, it's so much more about the community and the people. And this year was no exception. I met so many cool people, got to hang out with so many awesome people, and got to see friends that I've known for years. this is the only time we get to see each other. It's kind of like our group, right? Lericon is the only time a year we all get to see each other.

It's kind of there's there's people I see at Tech that it's kind of the same. But the conference was super smooth. They did such a great job putting it on this year. Nick, no hiccups like I. Like from a speaker perspective and attendee expense perspective, like it was great. ⁓ Definitely, definitely recommend it and like huge shout out to Geocodeo like.

Chris Gmyr (32:41)
Yeah, that's us.

TJ Miller (32:46)
They have just been so incredibly supportive of not only my experience at the conference, but they also swooped in kind of at the last minute with a pretty significant sponsorship on the conference, too. And it was so cool getting to like, there were a good handful of people that came up to me and were like, yeah, pass along thanks to Geocodeo for sponsoring the conference, which felt awesome. Talked to a few people that were like,

Chris Gmyr (33:09)
That's awesome.

TJ Miller (33:12)
interested in maybe like using Geocodeo for some stuff, was great. So yeah, was a huge shout out to Geocodeo for the personal support, but also just like the massive support to the community and sponsoring the conference.

Chris Gmyr (33:26)
Yeah, that's awesome. Sounds like a good success all the way around.

TJ Miller (33:30)
Yeah, yeah, I am. I'm stoked. I, I, there were a couple of times I put prism stickers out, just like out on tables with the, there was a table that had like a bunch of Geocodeo stickers. There was like the PHP arc, like the architect, they had their own booth there too. And I like just at different times throughout the conference, I just like go put like a dozen stickers or like, you know, I just out on the table randomly.

I walked through, they were all gone. It was fun. So getting to see the stickers go like hotcakes was great. I I printed them just to make sure I had stickers for the conference. So the fact that they're all gone and people had them and seeing Prism stickers on people's laptops was like, I don't know, It's surreal, absolutely surreal.

Chris Gmyr (34:16)
Nice. Well, you deserve it. I'm glad everything went well and yeah, on to the next conference, right?

TJ Miller (34:22)
Yep, yeah, we got LarriCon in July. There were a handful of speakers that were like, so are you gonna like submit to Longhorn too? So like Longhorn PHP is coming up in October and that's in Texas. And I'm like, man, I kind of really want to, but I'm pretty sure my wife will kill me if I sign up for any more conferences this year. Like, I'm pretty sure she'd be so upset.

Chris Gmyr (34:41)
Thank

TJ Miller (34:45)
She'd be very supportive, but I'd get the side eye for sure.

Chris Gmyr (34:50)
Take the fam with you. Everyone's going down to Texas.

TJ Miller (34:52)
Dude,

so it sounds like that may be what's happening for Lericon. I was talking to her about it and my father-in-law, her dad lives in New Mexico. And so there's always a layover in Denver on our way out to New Mexico. So she's like, well, why don't we just come out while you're at the conference, we'll just continue on to the New Mexico and hang out.

And then we'll come back after the conference and we'll do like a few days in Denver and like go explore around Colorado some more, which we love Colorado. So, um, sounds like that may be happening. Like we'll have the conference and then family will roll through and we'll do like a little family vacation. And, um, I think, uh, I think Eric van Johnson and like his wife are planning on doing something similar. So I think we'll meet up. think we're talking about going to a baseball game afterwards too.

So that'll be cool to have a conference and then little extra stay afterwards.

Chris Gmyr (35:46)
is

Yeah, that'll be fun. Sounds awesome.

TJ Miller (35:53)
Yeah, try and drag them around to my stuff, you know. They were there, I mean, they were there for Lericon Chicago when I spoke to, so it'd be cool if they end up overlapping with when I talk and be able to catch that. That'd be rad. I will see what happens, but.

Chris Gmyr (35:58)
Yep. Yeah.

Yeah, totally. Still got a little time to plan it and make it happen, so shouldn't be too bad.

TJ Miller (36:16)
for sure.

For sure. It'll be, it'll go by fast. Like there's plenty of time right now, but it'll go by fast.

Chris Gmyr (36:22)
Totally. Yeah,

Sweet. So we'll want to wrap up.

TJ Miller (36:26)
Yeah, man, we can do that. Let me... Yeah. So thank you everybody for listening to the Slightly Caffeinated podcast. Show notes, including all the links from things we talked about and social channels are down below at slightlycaffeinated.fm. you... Yeah. Thanks everyone for listening.

Chris Gmyr (36:42)
Thank you.