Slightly Caffeinated

Chris Gmyr (00:00)
Hey, welcome back to the slightly caffeinated podcast. I'm Chris Gmyr Hey TJ, so what's up in your world this week?

TJ Miller (00:03)
I'm TJ Miller.

man,

geez, like, I just was weird chatting beforehand. I was going through my calendar to see like what I've done over the last like two weeks, cause we missed a, we missed a couple of weeks, but I'm super boring and I don't think I've done anything like all that fun except for like this week. So this week, this past Tuesday was my 16th wedding anniversary. So.

Chris Gmyr (00:18)
Yeah, it's been a while.

Congrats.

That's awesome.

TJ Miller (00:32)
Thanks, man.

So I got us dinner reservations at this like super swanky restaurant that we've been to on and off across our relationship. So it was like a nice, like very memorable experience doing that. And then Laurel got us concert tickets. So we went down to Detroit and saw a concert afterwards. That was awesome. So ⁓ I forgot the name of the artist.

Chris Gmyr (00:52)
Sweet. What was the concert?

TJ Miller (00:56)
I can't remember off the top of my head. I will look it up and we can put it in the show notes. It was a very fun, it was like a small show, but it was really fun. So yeah, that's, mean, that's, I think really the only exciting thing. Lots with like, definitely forward progress and stuff on Prism that we can touch on later and some exciting things there. know, really spending time getting

really into prepping for PHP tech. We're like a month away at this point. We're a little under a month away or yeah, a little under a month away from the conference and I've got outlines done and now it's time to like start filling in those outlines and getting slide decks together and I haven't done a workshop in a long time. So

trying to figure out what that's going to look like. Like I have the outline together for the workshop, but, I feel like that's going to be a lot of prep that I'm not used to doing. Like there's going to be, I think some slides, I'd love to have, like, I'd love to, I need to like pre-build everything that we're going to build, right? for a couple of reasons, like I need to pre-build it so I can make sure that like,

we're going to do works in that it's actually well thought out code instead of just trying to think on the spot about everything. And then also I'd love to be able to provide a repo. So if people are having a hard time following along or they're watching the recording later, there'll be a repo with all

like what we built essentially there. And then that'll be a cool little like artifact for people to go look at too, just who are like looking at Prism, who want to see like some examples of how to use Prism. There'll be what we built in the workshop in there, I think. So, yeah, it's...

I'm starting to get a little stressed out about it. So I think work on Prism might slow down a little bit over the next couple of weeks so that I can really buckle down and get these like workshops and talks together.

Chris Gmyr (03:02)
Yeah, I think

that's understandable, though. That's totally fine. Especially workshops are a lot of work, like you said. Setting up the repo is just one whole big task. But it be a good benefit and artifact, like you said, too.

TJ Miller (03:13)
Yeah, I think that,

I think that'll be my goal this weekend is to build everything I need to build for the workshop this weekend. I think that's achievable. I'm sure Claude and I will team up on knocking that out together and.

That's been fun. I've been using Cloud Code a ton. that'll be fun using that to help try to put together the workshop a bit. So yeah, that's that, man. Yeah, dude, what's new in your world?

Chris Gmyr (03:36)
Nice, yeah, that's awesome.

man, it's been a couple weeks. So I feel like the last time we recorded, I mentioned that the kids got sick, my wife got sick and I was still holding off strong. Well, that only lasted a few more days after recording and it finally hit me that following weekend. And just the week after we recorded, was just like, just not in a good spot, like not sleeping well, just like.

TJ Miller (03:55)
No.

Chris Gmyr (04:04)
coffee and then I don't know just got whatever weird virus that they had and still wasn't recovered by the time we usually record. So we took that break but luckily towards the end of that following weekend I was feeling better because I had an offsite with the engineering team at Rula in Chicago. So I was out in Chicago from that following Monday to Thursday morning.

which was super fun. Got to meet a ton of people that are directly on my team and just on the wider engineering team. And even though everyone is super friendly and nice on Zoom, it's totally different when you jump into in-person and doing activities and you just get much more of a connection with everyone. And everyone was super fantastic, great to hang out with and had a lot of great discussions, both work-related and non-work-related.

TJ Miller (04:51)
yeah.

Chris Gmyr (05:00)
so getting back to, work this week is like, yeah, like just feel like even more comfort, you know, with everyone, which is really nice. and because we only do this, or they only do this like once a year, super grateful that I was able to join soon enough to jump in on the, offsite, cause then it would be obviously, you know, next year until we, do it again. So.

TJ Miller (05:19)
Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (05:24)
It was really good timing. Glad I was feeling better. I wasn't like a hundred percent yet, but I was good enough to travel and do all the things and whatnot. so yeah, I back on last Thursday and then turned around with my son on Friday morning and flew up to, New York, upstate Syracuse area. cause we went to a Metallica and Pantera concert on Saturday. So.

TJ Miller (05:49)
Sick, man.

Chris Gmyr (05:51)
It was their first stop in Syracuse, the JMA Dome, on their 72 season world tour kickoff. That was the first concert that they had of the new tour. So we got tickets a while ago. My mom wanted to go. So she's like, do you guys want to fly up and get tickets? And we did that. We got VIP access tickets. We were third row.

TJ Miller (06:02)
Wow.

Chris Gmyr (06:14)
right next to the stage. So we were basically eye level to the bands just over the pit. And then the VIP access area had a bunch of just old tour memorabilia and instruments that you could play. And they had pinball games and photo ops with things that you could do. The band wasn't there. We didn't pay that much for the VIP access. That's a totally different package.

TJ Miller (06:15)
Dang, man!

Wow.

Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (06:38)
But they had like a really nice like spread and food and snacks and desserts and stuff. They had a couple open bars that you got like drink tickets for. And then got some like merch and stuff like that and enjoyed the concert. It was definitely a late night for the kiddo, but ⁓ it was really awesome. And then we packed up Sunday morning and flew back here and

TJ Miller (06:48)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Chris Gmyr (07:03)
back to the real world with work and school this past Monday. So it's just been a whirlwind of just travel and sickness and schedule upheavals and all that. And then tomorrow we have a scout camping trip for the weekend. So that's from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning. So it's just like more, you know, travel and activities. Like it's all good, but it's like

TJ Miller (07:19)
Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (07:28)
man, just need like a couple day break without doing anything. So it's going to be a little while because the following weekend is my, our daughter's third birthday. So we have some family coming into town the following weekend. So it's going to be a couple more weekends before we get like a real break. But then it's like, okay, we just need to block off whatever that next weekend is. Be like, we're just not doing anything. We're going to chill at home. We're going to hang out outside. Like we're just, I don't know.

TJ Miller (07:31)
Right. Right.

Hahaha

Chris Gmyr (07:54)
just do nothing and reset a little bit.

TJ Miller (07:55)
do nothing.

Yeah. Nice big reset for sure, man. I think that's awesome. I think you should definitely block that out now before something fills it in.

Chris Gmyr (08:04)
Yeah,

yeah, totally. No matter what, like we're saying no. Like we're just not doing anything. So yeah, it's all good stuff. Just a whirlwind of a couple weeks. yeah, but concert was fantastic and glad that I was able to see them again. I saw Metallica once before, but not Pantera, and they were fantastic. So yeah.

TJ Miller (08:08)
Yep. Yep. man.

Oh, that's so cool, man. That's so cool. I'm

very envious. That'll be a good time. Sick, man. Yeah. And I think the onsite was like really cool too, man. That's very fortunate that you were able to join in time to go and do that. That's something I'm really looking forward to about Leracon is like the whole GeoCodeo team is going to be there. And that's going to be really cool to like hang out with everybody. I haven't seen.

Chris Gmyr (08:46)
Yeah. Are you guys doing a

couple days earlier, post the conference, or just going for basically the conference days?

TJ Miller (08:53)
No,

think we'll be there. I think we get in, I think we get, I'll get in two days before the conference. And then, so we've got like a full day before the conference where we're going to be doing some like team stuff together. And then I think we're spending like the first half of day doing some team stuff together. And then like the second half of the day is a little open-ended because like last year they had the basketball tournament, right?

I think there's, I think there's stuff, something going on this year. I don't know what's going on. and so we kind of want to, I think have like the afternoon available to do, to see whatever like Laravel's got going on. like something similar to the basketball game or something. ⁓

Chris Gmyr (09:29)
Nice. Yeah. Is there a

special Dutch sport that Matias does that you guys can introduce? have no idea.

TJ Miller (09:37)
I have absolutely no idea. my God.

That'd be great.

Chris Gmyr (09:42)
That'd be funny.

TJ Miller (09:43)
Yeah, I have no idea. Nobody will just be, I haven't seen like, um, uh, there's, there'll be two people there that I've never met before. I've met Matthias, I've met Michelle, but it's been years since I've seen them, um, met them both at Lyricons. Uh, so it'd be really nice to be able to just hang out with everybody, you know? Yeah. Sickman, you want to talk some coffee? Yeah. So it is, uh, I'm sure.

Chris Gmyr (10:00)
Yeah, yeah, that'll be awesome.

Yeah, let's talk some coffee.

TJ Miller (10:10)
where you're at, it's warming up. It's been warming up quite a bit here. I mean, we're, we're having like wacky days where it's 30 in the morning and then 70 by the afternoon. So it's just, it's all over the place, but the consistently warmer, I've put all my like heavy coats away. I've got my, just my thinner fall coats out and sweatshirts. so I think with that shift in the weather, my coffee habits.

shift a little bit and change. How about you? Do your coffee habits like shift and change with the weather as well?

Chris Gmyr (10:43)
A little bit. They're pretty standard. I'd say at home, we still do the drip hot coffee in the morning. But in the past, I've done cold brew concentrate, so it's a little treat midday or something like that. But when I go out to a coffee shop, cafe, restaurant, whatever, sometimes I'll switch that up. So if it's like,

TJ Miller (10:53)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Gmyr (11:03)
Earlier morning, I might still get a small hot coffee. But as it progresses in the afternoon or early afternoon where it's hot, I'll definitely switch it up to cold brew or some sort of iced coffee. And I don't know, sometimes treat myself to a flavor shot or something like that, or a mocha or something. So yeah, I'll definitely switch it up a little bit. But I don't know, still the warm drink first thing in the morning.

TJ Miller (11:21)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, same. I think it's very similar over here. Fall, like spring, fall is kind of different because like the weather is shifting, like pure summer. I definitely see like a hard shift in my coffee habits. But even even then it's still I still do the hot cup in the morning. I don't know, just something about it. Got it. Got to have it. But then pretty much immediately I'll switch over to like iced stuff.

And when I go out, it'll be depending on what the coffee shop's got. If they've got nitro, I'm probably doing a nitro or I'll at least do a cold brew. Sometimes I'll get real crazy. Chris, I'll get crazy, man. I'll do an iced matcha. I know it's nuts, right? Like, we're really getting out there. But like a really good iced matcha or sometimes like an iced chai is pretty good too.

Chris Gmyr (12:08)
nice.

Mattress is good though.

Yeah, Chai's great. Yeah, Nitro's great too. Do you have any places around you that make their own Chai? Or just like...

TJ Miller (12:25)
I am a thousand percent sure there is. Not any of the places that I frequent these days makes their own. But I'm like a thousand percent sure there's shops around here that do that.

Chris Gmyr (12:38)
Yeah, there's like a huge difference between just like the store bought try, which is fine depending on whatever brand that they use, like the homemade batch try, like there's a couple places around here that do it. It's like out of this world a million times better.

TJ Miller (12:41)
yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've had that. I've had it before. It is pretty incredible, I'm such a sucker for a nitro. If you've got if you've got nitro on tap, it's almost a guarantee that it's happening. and then around here, we'll make our own cold brew concentrate. It's just it's we go through so much of it in the summer that it's just not

Chris Gmyr (13:02)
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

TJ Miller (13:14)
And there's nowhere around here that like sells cold brew concentrate. So we used to live somewhere where they used to sell cold brew concentrate and, it got so expensive for us that we just like started making our own back then. And, and so now it's just like, we can make big enough batches that, you know, we've, pretty much all summer long, we've got a batch brewing, because we'll just go through it.

Chris Gmyr (13:25)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Do you mix the concentrate with anything? I typically just take the shot of the concentrate or just like a half cup of it. I'd be like, this is really strong, but really good and tasty. So I'll just drink it straight up.

TJ Miller (13:51)
Yeah, it depends. depends what I'm trying to do, right? I like when I sit down and code or like do something, right? I like to, I like to have like, like, it's very ADHD. And it's like a very typical ADHD thing. Like, I have like four drinks right next to me right now. I've got a monster. I've got a coffee. I've got like a water.

like, and I've got like an iced tea, like I've got like my different drinks for like, depending on whatever I need right now. But I always like to have like something caffeinated to like sip on. So there's definitely times where I'll like make myself, I'll just like water down the concentrate and just have like a cold brew. But there's other times where it's like, no, I need, I need the caffeine or I just don't feel like drinking that much. It'll be like,

Hell yeah, I'm doing concentrate shots. Like, just treat, basically just treat it like a cold espresso, like espresso shot really, more or less. So yeah, I definitely do that too.

Chris Gmyr (14:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, all this concentrate talk makes me want to grab another bag of coffee or something like that this weekend or early next week and start the process to make some because it sounded good right now.

TJ Miller (15:01)
Yeah.

Yeah, we just bought like four or five bags from another, like a different local roaster than we've been doing lately. Cause we just kind of got like burnt out on all the flavor profiles. So we just like switched it up. But now that I'm sitting on some beans, I'm definitely like, like it's getting warmer. like, it's about time to get a concentrate match going.

Chris Gmyr (15:29)
Yeah, totally. What do you use for it? Do have like a concentrate set or like equipment to do it, or you just throw it in a big mason jar? What do you do?

TJ Miller (15:40)
now, like lately we've been just, steeping and just like pouring it over like a filter and just like filtering it out. So just whatever, like yeah, giant mason jar, big, big old pitcher. we've been doing that, but, we do somewhere. We bought a cold brew concentrate kit a few years ago, and I think you may have bought the same one. ⁓

Chris Gmyr (16:04)
at

the Atari.

TJ Miller (16:05)
Yeah, yup.

Yeah, so I had that kit. I think we still have it somewhere. I might order another one this summer because, or I might order like two of them so I can just kind of like keep batches going. But those worked out so well.

Chris Gmyr (16:21)
Yeah, yeah, I'll add that to the show notes. That's the one that we use here too. So basically, just brew or grind all the coffee. It's a big filter jug on the top, and it has a little rubber gasket in there. So you put the water in, you stir it up, you leave it.

TJ Miller (16:29)
It's kind of like a... Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (16:43)
basically for 24 hours, you pull the plug into the big like mason jar type carafe and just let it drain out. And then you toss all the spent grounds and then you're good to go. You put a cap on it and put it in the fridge for probably only last a few days around here at least. ⁓ But I think it's good for like a week or two maybe depending on how much you have. But yeah, it's really great. I've enjoyed using it and you just leave it out on the counter for

TJ Miller (16:59)
Yep. Yep.

Chris Gmyr (17:11)
the 24 hours room tap and be good to go.

TJ Miller (17:14)
Yeah. Yep. That's basically like, that's, that's the, that's what we used for a long time. I swear we have it still somewhere, but I also feel like we lost it in the move, which is why we've been not using it lately. Uh, but no, we'll get back to that this summer. And one time we did, we did back when we were roasting coffee, we did a really big batch. took a five gallon bucket and did like a big, like five gallon bucket batch. Um, that was.

Chris Gmyr (17:41)
man.

TJ Miller (17:43)
That was pretty great, actually. Yeah, that was cool. Because we had like, it was myself, my wife, and like one other person. So like the three of us like split the bucket. And that was, I think, probably the best cold brew I've ever had. Because like we went straight from like the local roasters roaster straight into our like five gallon bucket. So it was like as fresh as fresh as you could get.

⁓ So good.

Chris Gmyr (18:07)
Yeah, totally.

Yeah, and then you could always freeze them in cubes or something like that too and just store a whole bunch of them if you make a big batch.

TJ Miller (18:18)
Yeah. Cool, man. You want to talk some Claude?

Chris Gmyr (18:22)
Yeah, let's talk some cloud. So the situation came up at work. And we were talking about APIs in our system. We have a bunch of different services. We have a lot of legacy services versus new services. The tech stacks are different. And we were talking about some just general conventions and backwards compatibility issues of field naming and how that

TJ Miller (18:23)
Sick man.

Chris Gmyr (18:47)
relates to the internals of the services and because of the tech stacks, they just work a little bit differently and the conventions are different. So we got into this big discussion of a couple people pushing to align more towards, I would say, newer conventions or TypeScript conventions where it's like camel case for field names and things like that. And a lot of our old APIs for Ruby on Rails are

Snake case and for whatever reason in Ruby on Rails or whatever we have set up. I don't know the exact details like it's kind of hard to Convert the snake case to camel case where there's like internal I don't know middleware or something like that that isn't compatible with it again. I don't know the exact details, but some people were kind of fighting for backwards compatibility so even on like new services with TypeScript that

the general convention is to keep camel case. Like, should we switch them to snake case or should we do something with the older services to, I don't know, update the metalware or make it kind of forward compatible with newer services and conventions? There was a lot of back and forth. There was a lot of tooling mentioned. There was a lot of people involved in the Slack discussion. So after about

two days, it was like really hard to understand what exactly we were talking about and where people stood. Because in Slack, it was just in one thread. So you couldn't like thread off of like individual responses or anything like that. Everything is just in one batch thread, right? It is, yes, yes, it is really nice. But when someone comes in, you know, three hours after in response to like,

TJ Miller (20:22)
But it's also really nice though, it's all in one spot.

Chris Gmyr (20:31)
two things previous or like the day previous and it's like, messed.

TJ Miller (20:33)
a hundred percent.

Yeah, it's an absolute mess, but it's all in one spot, which is kind of nice.

Chris Gmyr (20:39)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, it is nice. And it's really convenient because what I did is I wanted to chime in on a few points. But at this point, I had almost no idea where anyone stood really, except for the first couple people in the thread. and this is all just very generic conversation. wasn't any sort of special sauce or any secrets or anything like that. It was just like.

basic API stuff. So I'm like, OK, I just copied and pasted the whole thread into Claude and was like, what are the overall points and arguments and where does everyone stand on these points? So it did an amazing job of organizing the overall theme and the general points of what was being discussed.

And then it broke everything down into per person and pros and cons are for or against each of those points. So it would basically like thread it out of like, here's the general story and TJ is in favor of A, B and C, but does not like D. Chris is in favor for C and D, but not A and B. And like, here's some reasons. And then it points back to like some of the conversation.

or quotes some of the points that people were talking about. So it's just like, great. Like now I can read this summary and per person I could do like call-outs of like, hey TJ you said this or Chris you said that. And kind of redirecting the conversation a little bit more fluidly like moving forward. And I found that like super helpful with just grokking the whole thing because there's so many different sub-conversations.

going in that thread. And Claude did a really nice job of presenting it in a way that was easily digestible, especially coming into it two days later, and wanting to contribute to that conversation in a positive way. So I think just grokking it myself was just taking way too long. So it was super impressive that Claude was able to summarize everything and group

TJ Miller (22:19)
Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (22:43)
all the topics by person and what their stances were. So I thought that was a super cool use case to do.

TJ Miller (22:51)
No, that's like an awesome use case, man. And I think,

I think the thing is... like that's...

It's a great use case, but it is also like just such the perfect task to ask an LLM to do. Like it's just right up its alley of things that it like excels at. I think there's a lot of things that people are trying to like have LLMs do that is just like outside of the realm of, you know, we're really at the the edges of what an LLM can accomplish. And this is just like so perfectly like.

an ideal task for an LLM. So that's great that you reached for it. And I'm no surprise to me that it did such an excellent job breaking everything down like that. Man, that's awesome. And yeah, I taking a step back further, further in this debate, like I am. I feel like I am super diehard snake case on API responses.

But...

I've worked in TypeScript and I also understand how much of like a pain in the ass that is and how much like camel case is like just easier to deal with. um, I don't know, man, I don't know where I fall in that debate. Like, I guess just be, like pick one and be consistent. That's all I can say.

Chris Gmyr (24:09)
Yeah, yeah, and that's the problem now is like as we spin up new services or like to create old ones or move things around, it's like how do we make these changes across the board or which changes do we even want across the board? And when it's when you have like multiple tech stacks that it makes sense in one or the other or like some of these conventions makes it that much harder to say like we're going to go this way, especially because like

Open API, JSON schema, they don't really have a set rule like what you should do with naming. It's just like, with whatever the language.

But when you have multiple languages or frameworks that have their own opinions, then it makes it that much harder. So we didn't come up with any consensus yet. But I've been thinking about putting together like a API like Guild or something like that, that we can discuss these things and get some like better guidelines and kind of a path forward of what to do with some of these things.

TJ Miller (25:04)
Yeah, man, I think that's a great idea. Especially in these larger org type environments, you kind of have to pare down who's at the table in the conversation because it becomes too many cooks in the kitchen. I think you could definitely put together a like.

Chris Gmyr (25:22)
Yeah, totally.

TJ Miller (25:25)
a survey and just get a general pulse on things like across the board and that's like maybe a good idea but I think yeah you kind of got to put together like little committees and stuff to kind of like help make decisions on things and be able to communicate those details out.

Chris Gmyr (25:40)
Yeah, because we're way too big for consensus, for sure.

TJ Miller (25:43)
Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so funny coming from like where we were both at, like a relatively decent size engineering org, going from there down to like five people at Curology. Like it's been, it's been interesting because like, yeah, we had API committees and other things going on, to like, yeah, no, it's just like,

three of us have a quick Slack conversation and it's decided. Like, move on. ⁓ It's so nice to move like that fast.

Chris Gmyr (26:10)
Yep. Yep. You go with this? Yep. Okay. Let's do it.

Yeah, totally. So yeah, the exact topic matters a little bit less, but I just thought that the use case and the outcome of using Claude for that was just awesome. And it worked out a lot better than expected. So I'm like, oh, is Claude even going to follow these mini sub-threads in there and keep the people all together? And yeah, did a great job. So yeah.

Copy and paste Slack and organize and summarize the thread.

TJ Miller (26:49)
Yeah, no, that's awesome, I've been having Claude do similar things with, like I added the GitHub MCP server to Claude and there's a few open PRs and issues on prison that have had lengthy conversations and I've gone back and I've just had Claude, I'm like, yo, can you tell me what, where does this?

PR actually stand out of these conversations. it goes through, it looks at everything and we're like, yeah, we'll summarize stuff. And it's like, yeah, no, it looks like this is ready to go. Or it's like, well, this is where the conversation left off. These decisions need to be made. I'm like, great, this is fantastic. That's super nice. And so I think I'm going to start putting together some more tooling to automatically do that across the board for different things that way.

you know, I can get like a nice little executive summary of like a bunch of different things when I sit down in the morning.

Chris Gmyr (27:45)
Yeah,

totally. And that would be really cool, because I know GitHub has a stale bot that you can put on and auto close PRs or issues after x amount of days. But I think it would be sweet to have a bot to recover old issues or open PRs that have just become semi-stale. It's like, hey, no movement has been made on this in the last

two weeks, here's the summary of what is happening, and here's the action item or follow-ups that need to happen. Because like you said, it could be good to go of, we can close this issue, or we can merge this PR, or here's the things that are left open that we need to talk about. And then that bump will get everyone re-engaged back in that conversation, and then rinse and repeat. So I think that'd be pretty sweet, especially for really large orgs or open source projects where

TJ Miller (28:17)
Ooh, yeah.

Chris Gmyr (28:39)
You know, only the last, latest like five things or 10 things are read on a daily basis and everything else is basically forgotten.

TJ Miller (28:47)
Yeah, no, I think it's cool, man. I think there's so many opportunities for things like that. Yeah, cool, dude. So we put this ticket on a little while ago, and I think this would be fun to just touch on briefly, because I think the hypes kind of died down a little bit, but we just kept not getting to it. ⁓ So a few weeks ago, OpenAI and GP, they launched Image.

Chris Gmyr (29:04)
Yeah.

TJ Miller (29:10)
Image generation for chat GPT 4.0 and gosh, it's so much better. Like it got crazy good. it it got re it got really good at doing texts. So that's been fun. Cause like that's been the challenge for like a really long time that I've had with it that I like, I've done a lot of work trying to get it to do like text for diff, many different things.

Chris Gmyr (29:21)
That's really, it looking really good.

TJ Miller (29:38)
and I think that's a problem that like a lot of people had too. And so that's something that they, think they really specifically tuned into their image generation was like being able to handle text now. and I have been just banging out all sorts of cool stuff, now that I can like consistently add text. just two days ago, I got a bug up my butt.

over coffee in the morning and like knocked out some pretty cool prism sticker designs using Claude and I using Claude using the GPT-40 image generation. And so like some pretty sick sticker designs and like I only it did the sticker designs and then I maybe spent five minutes editing each of them in like Photoshop and then like sent them off to the printer and like got proofs.

Chris Gmyr (30:08)
to be.

Thanks

TJ Miller (30:27)
on

the way. So, super stoked about that. but yeah, it's doing all sorts of crazy stuff now. and I've done like promo images for some of the new Prism stuff, which we can like touch on next to, just like little like teaser images or like little repo banners, which has been fun. And they also like worked a lot on like consistency. So if you get

If you really like kind of tune your prompt for like consistency, now you can get like pretty consistent image generation, ⁓ which is also been the problem is like being able to like basically pull up like two chats, paste the prompt and get like similar images or like be able to do like illustrations for a story where it's maybe like you need the same

Chris Gmyr (30:54)
Yes.

TJ Miller (31:10)
aesthetic, you need the same theme, need the same like character, like development basically, but you need that consistent across like multiple different image generation cycles, like they've really like tuned that as well. So like you're able to be like very consistent. Yeah.

Chris Gmyr (31:26)
Yeah, that's awesome. Because that's what I

was going to ask, too. If you had a logo or some other stream of images, because I know even us talking before, every time that you prompted it, it was something almost completely different. So even doing something like Prism, if you landed on something initially to be your starting point logo.

Like it didn't do a very good job of capturing that into any future images. So it sounds like they've gotten a lot better with that now with this new 4.0 model.

TJ Miller (32:01)
Yeah,

it's gotten a lot better. I wouldn't say it's like perfectly consistent, but like let's say I wanted to generate consistent repo banners across all of the packages for Prism, like all the org packages for Prism, right? I could basically like get the first one done.

And then drag and drop that into a new chat window when I have a new package and say, yeah, well, I need to update this text from Relay to Bedrock. it's not a one-for-one replica, but it's like you look at the two images and you're like, yeah, these are very similar. They're almost the same thing. So I was very impressed with that because that's something I did do initially.

And I'm like, let's do like, it'd be fun to do like kind of consistent banners across everything. I decided to mix them up a little bit just to kind of like differentiate things. But yeah, I was very impressed with how well it did doing that.

Chris Gmyr (32:56)
Sweet, yeah, that's awesome. Well, speaking of Prism, do you wanna go into some?

TJ Miller (32:59)
Yeah, yeah, before we wrap

up, we can talk about some updates. It's been because it's been like, it's been a little bit. So I think the big bulk of the updates happened over the last like week or so really. I and it was really funny. This tweet kind of blew up. I was just like hanging out and woke up. think something was like Saturday morning, either Saturday or Sunday morning.

I woke up and just was like, I am so sick of staring at the Prism docs and this default theme from like the doc framework I'm using. And I'm just like, don't like it. can't stare at this anymore. I like, I've never liked, I've never liked the fact that it was the default theme. like, I want to do something to differentiate it. Um, so I sat down over coffee and just like went to town and

re-themed the entire doc site. very, very vapory, very Miami. We've got some fun gradients going on every- everywhere. I just went like loud and fun with it. But it feels so much better. It feels like it has like a lot more personality to it now and

Chris Gmyr (33:54)
Let's go.

TJ Miller (34:12)
And now I can't stop staring at it. I'll just like be like hanging out. I was like standing in line somewhere the other day and I just pull up the doc site and just looking at it. I'm like, oh, this looks great. It's so pretty now. I love looking at it. And so now like, I don't know. So I did that and then I tweeted about it and I was like really surprised that it got as much traffic as it did. But I think it was one of those that it was just like, I

Chris Gmyr (34:22)
That's so pretty.

TJ Miller (34:38)
I, by happenstance, posted all the right things in all the right ways and the algo just really liked it. Because then I posted something which I thought was more significant later and that was so flat. Like, no engagement. I was like, but this is kind of a bigger deal. So Doc's got a big update.

There's been like a few features rolled out. don't think there's anything, without scrolling through the release notes, I don't think there was anything too crazy. But the other big release we had was, we now support Bedrock. I don't know, I'm sure you can hear my dogs barking in the background. They're going nuts over delivery. Yeah, I can't help it. I have a whole pack of dogs.

Chris Gmyr (35:14)
A little bit. They're all right.

TJ Miller (35:19)
So the other big release is now we support AWS Bedrock, which was a huge amount of work. Massive, massive shout out to Chris, who really put in the big bulk of the work on this. And I just kind of went through and massaged some things. So yeah, massive shout out to Chris for that. But yeah, with.

That was released as a whole separate package. we didn't release that as all of the other providers where it's first party provider support. The reason being is that it's a little bit more complex because it's not just open AI. We're working with open AI as API. Anthropic for Claude, same thing. We're just working with the Anthropic API. For Bedrock, we're actually interacting with different APIs.

Chris Gmyr (36:05)
interesting.

TJ Miller (36:06)
Yeah, so like if you're interacting with Cloud, you're interacting with like the Cloud API, like through Bedrock. Or if you're using like a Bedrock model, then you're going to be using like their, I think it's like conversation API or something. So there's like actually different API schemas that you're adhering to. So it's a little bit more complex of a provider, but then also it has the additional dependency of

like an AWS package so that we can handle like AWS auth, like all the authentication and all of that stuff. So I just didn't want that, that being a dependency of like Prism, which is I've tried to keep rather like low dependency. So I just didn't want to add that like additional AWS dependency for like a single provider. If there were like a multiple

providers that needed something, then fine, so be it. But not just for one. So that's an entirely separate package, but that was a pretty big release. I'm stoked that that got out there.

Chris Gmyr (37:08)
Yeah, that's a good call for blending out into its own package. That makes a lot of sense.

TJ Miller (37:14)
Yeah, it was, it was kind of, I kind of wanted it to be its own package, but it was also partially an experiment for, like what it would look like for like third, like if we started splitting out the providers to separate packages, like we talked about, like a handful of times in the past. so, I'm just going to scroll through the release notes real quick and see if there's anything else.

That was like a big feature. Oh, we added stream support for Gemini. I don't know if we talked about that. That was another big one. And I think along with that, there's some like new inspiration for some different things that we could do streaming to. So I think, I think we're going to run with a few ideas there. But like I said, things might slow down a little bit for me in Prism over the next couple of weeks while I dig in and get.

Chris Gmyr (37:53)
sweet.

TJ Miller (38:04)
prepped for PHP tech. So ⁓ yeah, we'll see what happens. Yeah, starting to sweat a little bit. So we're going to buckle down on it.

Chris Gmyr (38:07)
Yeah, understanding.

Yep, it'll be all right, though.

TJ Miller (38:19)
Yeah. Well, on that note, man, I'm good. You ready to wrap up? Sick.

Chris Gmyr (38:22)
Yeah, let's wrap up.

Thank you so much for listening to the Slightly Caffeinated podcast. Show notes, all links and social channels are down below and also available on slightlycaffeinated.fm. Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you all next week.

TJ Miller (38:38)
Yes, yeah, thank you.